An
excellent post on talkorigins provides a detailed biological answer:
You are a metabolic organism.
As such, you are basically a collection of replicative proteins that function according to metabolic chemical reactions and processes. A virus is similar, in that it too is a replicative protein complete with mutable DNA and RNA, just as you have. But viruses lack metabolism, and so may not be considered to be alive in the same manner that you definitely are.
You are a eukaryote.
All remaining organic life is distinguished by structural differences at the cellular level between different groups of prokaryotes (which are essentially bacteria) and the eukaryotes (us). Unlike bacterial or viral cells, our cells have a nucleus. Hence, all non-viral / bacterial lifeforms are as we are; eukaryotes.
You are an animal.
Now I've heard a few creationists argue that there are plants and there are animals and then there are human beings. And that none of them are actually related to one another other than through a common creator. They adamantly argue that we are not animals, as if there is some insult in that association. But you are one of only about a half-dozen kingdoms of eukaryotic life forms. Unlike those of most other biological kingdoms, you are incapable of manufacturing your own food and must compensate for that by ingesting other organisms. In other words, your most basic structure requires that you cause death to other living things. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a means of digestion. This, along with some very specific anatomical differences in the chemical composition of our metazoic cells, are the factors that define and distinguish an animal like yourself from all other kingdoms of life. Given the alternative choice between plants, molds, or fungus, animalia should seem reasonable even to the most adamant fundamentalist.
You are a chordate.
You have a spinal chord and every other minute physical distinction of that classification. You also have a skull, which classifies you as a craniate. Note: Not all chordates have skulls, or even bones of any kind. Once one of the chordates has enough calcium deposited around the brain to count as a skull, all of its descendants will share that. This is why absolutely all animals with skulls have spinal chords. And that is yet another commonality that implies common ancestry as opposed to common design.
You are a vertebrate.
Like all mammals, birds, dinosaurs, reptiles, amphibians, and most fish, you have a spine. Not everything with a spinal cord has a spine to put it in, but everything with a spine has a spinal cord in it, implying common descent.
Every animal that has a jaw and teeth (Gnathostomata) also has a backbone. And of course, you have both as well, again implying common descent.
You are a tetrapod.
You have only four limbs. So you are like all other terrestrial vertebrates including frogs. Even snakes and whales are tetrapods in that both still retain vestigial or fetal evidence of all four limbs. This is yet another consistent commonality implying a genetic relationship. There certainly is no creationist explanation for it.
You are synapsid.
Unlike turtles (which are anapsid) and "true" reptiles, dinosaurs and birds (which are all diapsid), your skull has only one temporal fenestra, a commonality between all of the vast collection of "mammal-like reptiles", which are now all extinct without any Biblical recognition or scriptural explanation either for their departure or their presence in the first place.
You are a mammal.
You are homeothermic (warm-blooded), follicle-bearing and have lactal nipples. And of course, not all synapsids are or were mammals, but all mammals are synapsid, implying common descent.
You are eutherian.
Or more specifically, you are a placental mammal, like most other lactal animals from shrews to whales. All eutherians are mammals, but not all mammals are eutherian. There are six major divisions in mammalia, only three of which still exist; those that hatch out of eggs like reptiles (monotremes), marsupials, that are born in the fetal stage and complete their development inside the mother's pouch, and those that developed in a shell-like placenta and were born in the infant stage, as you were. Your own fetal development seems to reveal a similar track of development from a single cell to a tadpole-looking creature, then growing limbs and digits out of your finlike appendages, and finally outgrowing your own tail. Some would consider this an indication of ancestry. Especially since fetal snakes, for example, actually have legs, feet, and cute little toes, which are reabsorbed into the body before hatching, implying common descent.
You are a primate.
You have five fully-developed fingers and five fully-developed toes. Your toes are still prehensile and your hands can grasp with dexterity. You have only two lactal nipples and they are on your chest as opposed to your abdomen. These are pointless in males, which also have a pendulous penis and a well-developed ceacum or appendix, unlike all other mammals. Although your fangs are reduced in size, you do still have them along with some varied dentition indicative of primates exclusively. Your fur is thin and relatively sparse over most of your body. And your claws have been reduced to flat chitinous fingernails. Your fingers themselves have distinctive print patterns. You are also susceptible to AIDS and are mortally allergic to the toxin of the male funnel web spider of Australia (which is deadly to all primates, but only dangerous to primates, which is why you'd better beware of these spiders). And unlike all but one unrelated animal in all the world, your body cannot produce vitamin-C naturally and must have it supplemented in your diet, just as all other primates do. Nearly every one of these individual traits are unique only to primates exclusively. There is almost no other organism on Earth that matches any one of these descriptions separately, but absolutely all of the lemurs, tarsiers, monkeys, apes, you, and I match all of them at once perfectly, implying common descent.
You are an ape.
Your tail is merely a stub of bones that don't even protrude outside the skin. Your dentition includes not only vestigial canines, but incisors, cuspids, bicuspids, and distinctive molars that come to five points interrupted by a "Y" shaped crevasse. This in addition to all of your other traits, like the dramatically increased range of motion in your shoulder, as well as a profound increase in cranial capacity and disposition toward a bipedal gait, indicates that you are not merely a vertebrate cranial chordate and a tetrapoidal placental mammalian primate, but you are more specifically an ape, and so was your mother before you.
Genetic similarity confirms morphological similarity rather conclusively, just as Charles Darwin himself predicted more than 140 years ago. While he knew nothing of DNA of course, he postulated that inheritable units of information must be contributed by either parent. He rather accurately predicted the discovery of DNA by illustrating the need for it. Our 98.4% to 99.4% identical genetic similarity explains why you have such social, behavioral, sexual, developmental, intellectual, and physical resemblance to a bonobo chimpanzee. Similarities that are not shared with any other organism on the planet. Hence you are both different species of the same literal family. In every respect, you are nearly identical.
You, sir, are an ape.
http://www.ottawaskeptics.
When you take away the ritual part of it, there are still questions as to the morality of doing it to babies however, the reasons for doing so are far more understandable therefore the barbarism simply isn't there.
I equate the two in the first scenario and think they are completely different in the second.
There's my .02 but in these tough times, I'll charge you a quarter!
I'm not convinced by the medical arguments (especially their relevance in north america). We don't prescribe vaccines until they've gone through rigorous testing and been shown to be more effective than alternatives that do not have side effects (in this case harming a man's ability to fully enjoy his sexuality AND the drama to the infant). Until such has been shown to be the case here there should be a moratorium on the practice.
Perhaps in an effort to justify male genital mutilation we've funded the sort of research we'd never think to fund in the case of female genital mutilation. The latter we somehow realize is fundamentally immoral and can in no way be legitimized....
As to Darren's point, I'm not convinced the percentage of the genital brutally removed defeats the comparison.
The reasons for male circumcisions and FGM are nearly always completely different. This does not in itself justify either, but there are differences that should be part of the discussion; (2) The act itself- The severity and resulting of effects of FGM are so different from male circumcision that while they may both be along a continuum, I would not put them near each other.
Contrasting different cultural practices is useful to understand issues and the supposed reasons supplied for continuing such practices, but each of FGM and MC should be evaluated for what they are.
Somewhat relatedly, while replying to this I ended up thinking about other 'harmful acts' that parents inflict upon their children such as ear piercings, bad haircuts and forced involvement in numerous activities. I'm not saying any of the above are related to the main topic(I've run out of room!
You watch a video of a helpless infant being mutilated (and I'll give you a link if you want) or attend the actual event and then tell me the practice isn't abominable. Let's not just philosophize in the dark. We're talking about something committed against like half of all boys on this continent. The numbers alone - far, far higher than FGM - suggest we should give this matter far more consideration.
The claims have changed many times as to the health ramifications of removing the foreskin however, to my knowledge, the evidence that it has been proven healthy has been unchanged in many years.
Again, I would appreciate evidence to the contrary if it's there. I hate to be under a wrong or misinformed impression.
Thanks again for an interesting topic and healthy debate!
When you refer to the evidence that is has been proven healthy, what health benefits are you referring to?
We don't condone medical practices except when they've been shown in repeated tests to be better than a placebo and better than alternatives with less or no side effects with respect to a well defined medical problem we wish to solve, and after years of study. Is that the case here? Or did we go looking for problems we could use circumcision to solve in an effort to justify an unjustifiable cultural practice? The process whereby MGM has been raised up as a health panacea is troubling.
As far as the health benefits, I am not talking about the prevention of AIDS because I still can't see how that is proven.
I have read quite a few reports (and unfortunately, I can't cite them right now nor do I have time because I'm heading out shortly) on how circumcision prevents infections due to cleanliness and although I've never experienced an infection there nor do I know anyone who has, the thought of it is unpleasant to say the least.
As for the health benefits as a medical proceedure, they are undeniable and the same as completely severing a penis: by making clandestine sex impossible it offers 100% protection against STDs.
(Tongue between teeth) The medical benefits to
sub-saharan african males who routinely use prostitutes is besides the point. We don't let parents arbitrarily make permanent physical modifications to there children except for this one case that has been culturally grandfathered in. MGM should stop.
If there is doubt you could rationally convince a young man to cut off the tip of his penis at age 18 then it is immoral for you to inflict that on him as a helpless infant, end of story.
1) The health benefits and risks of male circumcision are analyzed and weighed on a regular basis by major medical bodies. Health Canada's most recent judgement is that the benefits equal the risks and therefore they instruct doctors to not recommend the procedure, nor recommend against it (I looked this up a while ago).
For more on the health/risks see Harriet Hall's article on it:
http://www.sciencebasedmed
2) I don't think you should refer to male circumcision as genital mutilation. Mutilation is too strong a word to describe an act that apparently does not cause harm. Reports of reduced sexual pleasure is purely anecdotal. My personal anecdote is that I couldn't imagine enjoying sex more than I already do. (I'm circumcised)
3) Comparing male circumcision to female circumcision is not only inaccurate but it's damaging to the perception of the true horror that is female circumcision.
Here's reporting (by a doctor) on another recent study showing the STD reducing benefits of male circumcision.
I'm sure you'll pick up on this:
"they found that men reported decreased erectile function, decreased penile sensitivity"...
But don't forget to read:
"but increased satisfaction"
http://www.sciencebasedmed
Since when does benefits= risks mean we allow a procedure? If benefits=risks in any other medical area we advise against the procedure, don't we? Again, we are ignoring the usual medical process in order to justify the unjustifiable.
I'm comparing MGM&FGM on the legitimate grounds that they both cause needless pain and should be abolished. I'm not arguing that one is more harmful than the other. Why do some advocates against FGM feel they need to defend MGM?
Here's the study showing that most men were satisfied with being circumcised:
http://bit.ly/IuDZG
I find it highly unlikely you could find a similar study about FGM. You are not just equating male circumcision and FGM because "they both cause needless pain". In that case, you should be talking about ear piercing, it's far more common in this culture. You bring up FGM as a way to make MGM appear more horrific than it actually is, and I don't think that helps this debate.
Now I don't mean to argue that babies should be circumcised (you may have read it that way). I just wanted to make clear that it isn't the obvious horror you make it out to be. I personally am still undecided whether my "future son" should be circumcised. I have equally heated debates with the other side.
In addition to my previous comments, I align with much of what Jon has stated. So, let me reiterate and be more specific.
1) MC without anesthetic and proper medical procedures should definitely be ceased.
2) The negative effects of MC, in my opinion, do not indicate it is clear MC should be prohibited because of the positive effects. In addition to the link Jon posted (http://www.sciencebasedmed
3) MC and FGM are so different that, again, I don't think they should be seen as similar and also that the phrase MGM should not be used. Compare the pros and cons of MC with FGM (CONTINUED)
3) Compare MC with FGM - http://www.idebate.org/deb
4) Note that I am not prescribing MC for everyone. I just do not think it is overtly clear that it should be banned (given the aforementioned/linked pros and cons)
5) As we all know the plural of anecdote isn't data, this is a tricky one because if we leave out anecdotal info, then all testimonials, from the people who love their circumcision to the people who are trying to reconstruct their foreskin are thrown out. Consequently, we have to go with current studies, which again do not clearly indicate a ban on MC, as well that one could tenable argue that MC and FGM are different.
6) Justin, I do agree that some of this research was likely done with sketchy motivations, but the data stand on their own. (and the samples in the HIV study were mostly older boys/men).
By labeling it mutilation, MC opponents are trying to bring out an emotional response of disgust, one that I just don't share.
I'm personally more annoyed with being raised to believe in the lies of religion than with being circumcised.
And the fact that you don't "feel" mutilated is hardly proof that you're not and by your own admission that feeling will prejudice you against admitting the truth should that be the case.